Today we find Karine Gravel, nutritionist, doctor of nutrition and author of the book From diet culture to intuitive eating.
Daniel: Where did you get the idea to write a book?
It's funny because I went to look in my nutrition baccalaureate yearbook and my friends had written: “Mastery? PhD? Cookbook editor? It doesn't matter, you will give the best of yourself”.
I didn't become a publisher, but I completed a master's and a doctorate, and then I published a book afterwards. There was a 16-year delay between the end of my baccalaureate and the publication of my book. It's because I don't like to force events and I prefer to wait to have things to say.
I also wanted to create my way of mentioning information, so my book is an essay. It is not an academic book or with specific instructions on the "right way" to do things. It's more about reflections for inspiration.
I talk about weight, intuitive eating and I also say that in my practice I meet people who hope to lose weight or who don't like themselves, who try to control their bodies, who calculate what they eat and I find it sad. I wanted to bring my own contribution.
Daniel: At the beginning of the book, you talk about the idea of « eat healthy ». Do you think we exaggerate with this label of « good for health » that can be found in the grocery store?
Definitively.
There is no bad intention behind it. Basically, a health food, I have an idea of what it is, but there is no precise definition.
I think it's more marketing than science.
We could do a survey to find out what a healthy food is and probably we wouldn't have the same definition from one person to another. It's really a matter of perception.
It's a notion that's probably based on the nutritional value of the food, but wouldn't it be based on the trendy nutrients?
For example, carbohydrates are not very popular right now. Companies therefore tend to write “low in carbohydrates” so that it sounds good to our ears, that we find it more interesting and that we buy more of the food. It is very questionable as practice.
Daniel: Do you find that planning for the long term when trying to make changes to our food choices can help?
Yeah, I think that's a good way to see if a change is realistic. If we can't imagine depriving ourselves of a food in the long term, we may try to find a more realistic solution, like trying to enjoy it 100% when we choose to eat it.
Sometimes people seek to eliminate certain foods because they perceive them to be “fattening” or “unhealthy”. On the other hand, by doing this, the forbidden becomes attractive and you may be more at risk of having food cravings.
Daniel: I read that 45% of Quebec women make at least two weight loss attempts per year, that's huge!
That's a lot, and then at least two attempts means it could be more. It's not uncommon for me to meet people who have been on a diet for the past 30 or 40 years and it's a continual cycle between starting a diet, quitting it, starting a new one, etc.
It is very common and worrying too.
Daniel: What do you think supports this diet problem?
We can think that we are in a society where we have social norms of thinness. When I talk about standards, I am referring to what is expected of us.
According to perceptions, thinness is linked to success, beauty, happiness. This is what we perceive and, consciously or unconsciously, we will want to correspond to the proposed model.
There are also prejudices with regard to weight which are very present, because if we live in a body that is bigger, we are judged at all times.
We also still hear in 2022 that losing weight is a matter of willpower when it is not that at all.
Finally, there is also the medical discourse which can come from different health professionals, not only doctors, where a higher weight is necessarily associated with the disease, whereas it is not a guarantee either.
There are certain chronic diseases for which the risk can increase from a certain weight, but here we transformed it into "if you are fatter you are sick, while if you are thinner you are in good health" .
Daniel: In the book, you talk to us about the values related to femininity and masculinity, do you think that has evolved since the years when women had to be beautiful and men not show their emotions?
Yes, just to give you context, the studies I refer to in the book were done in the United States in 2003 and 2005, so it's not that long ago. These are studies of gender norms, that is, what we expect a “real” woman and a “real” man to correspond to.
According to these standards, a woman must be slim and sexy, while a man must be risk-taking, competitive, and even have some potential for violence.
Why did I talk about it in my book?
It's because I was completely outraged by it. I would like so much that we evolve faster, and that we stop trying to be what is expected of us in society, and instead try to be what we want to be. I talk about it in my chapter 51: The duty to please.
Daniel: I have the impression that there is a change in relation to body diversity, the diversity of values that are put forward, accepted, tolerated or normalized.
Yes really, it's great.
On the other hand, when we look for images on health, everyone is very thin, there is no one who plays sports with a bigger body whereas in real life there are people of all weights who play sports.
When I go running on the Plains of Abraham, there are a variety of bodies of all ages and that's real life.
I remember the first time I ran a marathon, I imagined arriving at the start and everyone was going to be very thin. Except that when I arrived, I was surprised to see that there was a great body diversity. But it's been a few years!
Daniel: When you talk about food, it makes me think of physical activity. Often, it is said that it is better to have an intrinsic motivation to do physical activity, that is, to do the activity because you enjoy it and not for its benefits. Foods are the same, they must be appreciated for their taste and not for their benefits.
Exactly, and why don't we spend more time figuring out how to cook food in a way we enjoy rather than directing our thoughts solely to nutritional value?
It's very good the nutritional value, I'm not saying it's bad, but eating is not just about that.
There is a gastronomic value, an emotional value, a cultural value which are also linked to food.
When you just look at nutritional value, I think you necessarily put yourself in a position of failure. So trying to see your diet as a whole over time, that's what's going to be important, to see if you have energy, if you feel good.
Food means listening, understanding our behaviors and wanting to take care of ourselves, so it's really different from what we were able to learn where we had to control and make “good choices”.
Daniel: In closing, if we want to get your book, what's the best place?
It is available in bookstores, it is easy to find, the publisher is KO Editions. It is also found on their website, so perhaps check before if it is available, but normally it is found everywhere in bookstores.
